Re: [boost] Build Boost Back Better

Hi, I've attempted to synthesize this discussion so we might find holes in our divergencies or come up with something more actionable. - This list does not represent my opinions. I marked things mentioned as pros and cons with +1/-1. This is also how I interpreted the comments and not my opinion. - As with any synthesis, there is going to be some error. I'm sorry if I misrepresented some opinions by mistake. - Solutions are not exclusive and not exhaustive. ## Communication Problems mentioned: - Declining activity in the mailing list - Balkanization of Boost Proposed solutions: - Mailing list - +1 The medium is not necessarily the problem - -1 Declining activity already - -1 Discussions about libraries are already on Github - -1 Instant discussions are already on Slack - -1 _Some_ non-per-library discussions are already on Reddit - -1 Feels link 20-years ago tech - +1 Discussion comes to the subscribers - +1 Simplifies local archives and one can use tools of choice - -1 Inability to have nicely formatted code - -1 Inability to have embedded godbolt preview - +1 It doesn’t interrupt you when “new stuff is available” - Forum based solution - +1 Friendlier from the user perspective - +1 Allows one to subscribe to topics of interest - +1 Discussion also comes to the subscribers - -1 Some find forums inferior to mailing lists - -1 Not everything can be solved by new and shiny tools - -1 People have already moved discussions to Github - +1 Newcomers prefer the web - -1 People need to subscribe to topics - -1 Integration with email involves lots of important details - -1 Centralized services might limit access based on the user's region - -1 Forums might require javascript to load content - Some form of social media management Related points - Getting reviews pumping should incentivize communication ## Promotion Problems mentioned: - Necessity to highlight once again the important role that Boost serves in the C++ community - Newcomers can't figure out where to ask for help and report problems. - Newcomers find it easier to find support on Reddit, Gitter, Github, or slack, than on the mailing list. Proposed solutions: - Website - +1 Make boost.org more modern and relevant - -1 Not everything can be solved by new and shiny tools - -1 Not many people decide not to use Boost because of the website - +1 Could simplify involvement for newcomers - Use boost projects for website backend - -1 May not be the most efficient - -1 Off-the-shelf software parts are widely understood - Some type of campaign - Identify metrics of success - Number of installs - Number of programs using Boost - Participation - Quantify where the participants have gone - People go to std:: mailing lists with their ideas and bypass boost - People go to Github, have their ideas available, bypass the review, and avoid changing things. ## Contributions and Proposals Problems mentioned: - No high-impact library creation and adoption - High barrier to getting involved - Libraries are either too well-written (beast) to contribute - Libraries are too domain-specific (math libraries) to contribute - There is no clear flow to do small improvements - Contributors don't know what libs are dead and which are not - Contributors don't know what are good issues for casual participants - Unmaintained libraries and PRs that get ignored - Contributors' lack of time - You are not going to attract new people by making them use ancient standards - Not enough women Proposed solutions: - Pivot in the direction of more user-facing utilities - +1 Graphics clients, window managers, audio I/O - +1 Boost is great for supplying nuts and bolts, but it's light on turnkey application frameworks - Pivot in the direction of more embedded utilities - GPIO, SPI, and I2C - Drawing in young engineers with fresh ideas and free time - Somebody making that happen - Create a list of open questions - Spend time at conferences cajoling people to act as review managers - +1 Good opportunity to find people - -1 Boost should not be "two-tier" i.e. those with travel budgets and those without - Involve more women: Cold-call a colleague or a mailing list participant - -1 Gender has no bearing in the Boost community - -1 Information about a C++ contributor other than their code is irrelevant - +1 Ignoring this as an issue is being "fine" with the "status quo" - -1 It segregates people by qualities irrelevant to the community - -1 It introduces a social divide - -1 It takes away from the community's efficiency - -1 The problems mentioned might not apply to online discussions - -1 It abandons merit as the most important value - -1 There's no reason to follow other organization's value system - +1 There could be efforts to make any open-source community more welcoming ## Review Problems mentioned: - Declining level of participation as reviewers - Difficulty to find a review manager - Newcomers don't understand the review process, although others do - Newcomers don't understand the process to become a maintainer Proposed solutions: - Somebody making that happen Related problems: - Requires new attractive proposals On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 at 10:36, Adam Wulkiewicz via Boost < boost@lists.boost.org> wrote:

W dniu 07.04.2022 o 15:32, Mateusz Loskot via Boost pisze:

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Although, I think (or hope) that we can all agree that there could be efforts to make most any open-source community be more welcoming. Yes, let's identify and eliminate technical barriers and chores

On Thu, 7 Apr 2022 at 15:29, William Linkmeyer via Boost wrote: that work against growing participation by users and contributors. +1

Adam

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